The Taboo of (Inter)Subjectivity. Part 1. The Two Sciences of Consciousness.  
Alan Wallace
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Alan Wallace, a scholar, practitioner, and teacher of Buddhism for over three decades, devoted fourteen years to training as a Tibetan Buddhist monk, and was ordained by H. H. the Dalai Lama. He earned a doctorate in religious studies at Stanford, and is the author of many books, including The Taboo of Subjectivity: Towards a New Science of Consciousness.

Laying the foundation for their conversation, Alan and Ken agree that whereas much of reality can be studied by objective observation, interior phenomena can only be studied through subjective observation. Data that is in "front" of one's eyes can be accessed by the five senses, and is described and understood in objective, third-person, "it"-language terms. Science here is material, so to speak. Data that is "behind" one's eyes can only be accessed through techniques adapted to interior realities, such as phenomenology and introspection, and is described and understood in subjective, first-person, "I"-language terms. Science here is indeed a science of consciousness.

However, in today's world, as Alan points out, science has become almost exclusively identified with scientific materialism, and there is next to no room for a genuine science of consciousness. In a world that is strictly material, thoughts, sensations, emotions, and the entire spectrum of interior reality is reduced to its material substrate.

But really, there are two sciences of the interiors we must honor, not just one. The first science we have already discussed, namely a first-person approach to first-person realities, as revealed by phenomenology and introspection. Quite simply, when I look at my mind, what do I see?

The second kind of interior science, as Ken explains, takes a third-person approach to first-person realities, and is therefore able to notice certain things that phenomenology can't see, namely structures in consciousness (which can explain, for example, the structure of language). Structures can't be spotted by introspection because they aren't part of the content of one's mind; they are part of what you look at the mind with. Even more interesting is that by taking a third-person approach to first-person realities and following them over time, modern research has consistently shown that these structures unfold developmentally.

The great contemplative traditions of the world give an exquisite account of the interior levels or stages of contemplative growth and development—their introspective techniques are truly extraordinary. But what the traditions won't be able to tell you is if the person meditating is, for example, at moral stage 1, moral stage 2, moral stage 3, etc. Once this person gets up off the meditation mat, through what structure are they going to express their realization?

Together, Alan and Ken explain how interiors of any sort—subjective and intersubjective—have indeed become taboo in modern Western culture. Not only are we discouraged from exploring the felt, immediate experience of subjectivity, but we are discouraged from studying the ways that that subjective self develops over time, changing not only how one perceives reality, but how much of reality is perceived to begin with.

We hope you enjoy this lucid, humorous tour through the subtle terrain of an interior landscape which might, just might, have something more interesting to tell us than the mechanical shuffling of our atomic foundations....


Did you know you can burn an audio CD of this dialogue and listen to it in your car or anywhere using a standard CD player, or—an increasingly popular move—listen on your iPod. Too cool!
The Taboo of Subjectivity, Gyatrul Rinpoche, The Vajra Essence, Düdjom Lingpa, Dzogchen, Tibetan Buddhism, William James, Descartes, Quantum Questions, Max Weber, differentiation of the value spheres (art, morals, science), the eye of flesh, the eye of mind, the eye of contemplation, Eye to Eye, gross/subtle/causal, the three strands of the knowledge quest (injunction, apprehension, confirmation), introspection, phenomenology, John Watson, behaviorism, Patricia Churchland, materialism, "What Is Integral?," James Mark Baldwin, structuralism, post-structuralism, developmental psychology, Foucault, Piaget, Lawrence Kohlberg, Jane Loevinger, Robert Kegan, Carol Gilligan, Susann Cook-Greuter, moral development (preconventional, conventional, postconventional), A Theory of Everything.--->
transmission time: 34 minutes
most memorable moment: "What came to be known as science settled on the eye of flesh, and thus, assuming we have at least three eyes—the eye of flesh, the eye of mind, and the eye of contemplation—two of them went blind...."

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